"A source of light comedy to me..."

----------------- Bulletin Message -----------------
From: GEORGE W. BUSH
Date: Jul 14, 2004 02:05 PM

DO YOU SEE ANY PLANE WRECKAGE ANYWHERE? I DON'T

[There was a photo here of the Pentagon crash site taken September 14, 2001. It was a cropped image showing only the point of entry.  I later found the uncropped image on the Defense Department's website: there is a very large pile of scrap metal to the left of the collapsed section...conveniently left out of the original image.  -- Xopher]

PS: --- The PENTAGON was NOT hit by an airplane! Look at the Photos! It was hit by a missle, There is a clean hole straight through the Pentagon !

( Looks like a perfect HOLE, not the type of damage caused by a HUGE 757 commercial airplane with wings !!! )

ALSO, there is NO PLANE DEBRIS at the Pentagon site !!! NO BROKEN WINGS, NO LARGE PLANE WRECKAGE to be seen anywhere.

Cover up, Lies and deception in the White House.

The Top Ranking Republicans are secretly involved in the Occult, they are decendants from ANGLO-SAXON Scottish Occult Blood Rites.

( Hitler was put into power by the THULE SOCIETY of EUROPE. ( Illuminati )

The Skull & Bones secret society in YALE, is a BRANCH of the THULE SOCIETY in the USA. )

GW BUSH is a member of the Skull & Bones Society. ( THULE BRANCH -YALE )

Cheney is a BEAST-MAN, a DEMON from hell.

Thanks for your political webpage, tell the people!

HITLER and the connection with THULE SOCIETY ( Illuminati Branch )

http://www.sumeria.net/politics/nazioccult.html

GW BUSH is a MEMBER of THE SKULL and BONES, USA Branch of the
Bavarian Illuminati.

VOTE OUT BUSH in 2004 !!! Keep the faith !

----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: Xopher
Date: Jul 15, 2004 10:17 AM

This post is completely false. Though much of it was destroyed in the initial
impact, there was plane debris at the site. Just because you cannot see it in one photo doesn't mean it wasn't there. Also, don't forget that this plane crashed during rush hour near one of the most congested freeways in the United States. There were hundreds, if not thousands of witnesses who saw the airliner going down. For further information on this ridiculous conspiracy theory, check out The Urban Legends Reference Pages

----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: GEORGE W. BUSH
Date: Jul 15, 2004 01:24 PM

believe what you want

----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: Xopher
Date: Jul 15, 2004 04:15 PM

Truth is not about believing what you want. It's about educating yourself:
viewing the issue from all angles, gaining as wide a perspective as possible, and weighing all the evidence regardless of whether it reinforces your political agenda or not. The Republicans believed what they wanted: this is why our country is embroiled in Iraq. They also believe what they want about the condition of the environment, the results of the Florida election, and countless other scandals the administration has taken part in. I encourage you to stay above their level. When a blatant lie such as this is spread by those on the Left, it only causes Republicans and Independents alike to dismiss all of our legitimate complaints about the government as lies and baseless accusations. Both black boxes from Flight 77 were recovered in the wreckage of the Pentagon and the remains of all but one passenger from that flight were found at the crash site. Are you familiar with the scientific principle of Occam's Razor which states that, all things being equal, the simplest explanation is most often the correct one?

Here is a collection of eyewitness accounts from newspapers immediately following the tragedy, including that of an AP reporter, who saw Flight 77 fly into the Pentagon.

Were these thousands of people hypnotized by our government into seeing an airplane that "did not even exist" (according to Thierry Meyssan, the French author who initially propagated this conspiracy theory)? You will not find a more skeptical person than me, especially when it comes to what the U.S. government has been doing in the past four years. Robust doubt is a healthy attribute, but it works both ways. If we're going to change the world for the better, starting with replacing Dubya and his insane posse in November, we need to embrace the truth and not alienate ourselves on the fringes of logic where no one, especially those whose minds we want to change the most, will even bother to listen to what we have to say.

Xopher

----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: GEORGE W. BUSH
Date: Jul 19, 2004 12:18 AM

you believe the newpapers and not your own eyes?

----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: Xopher
Date: Jul 19, 2004 11:43 AM

Your response is a non sequitur. What are you talking about? If by "believe my own eyes" you mean to ask whether I see any plane wreckage in that photograph you sent out, then my response is that I don't. That photo, however, was obviously taken after the clean-up and repair work had begun on the Pentagon in earnest. The recognizable parts of the airliner had already been moved off the lawn to make room for the construction vehicles. In fact, they were probably the first things removed from the scene in order to perform a thorough test for forensic evidence. If you looked at any other early photos of the Pentagon crash site besides that one, you can actually see plane debris. Did you even read my messages? Did you go to the URL I sent you with other pictures? How can you look at that one photograph and come to the determination that because there is no plane wreckage visible, no plane hit the Pentagon? If you want me to take you seriously you'll have to respond with more than one sentence, because I'm starting to believe that you're insane.

----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: GEORGE W. BUSH
Date: Jul 20, 2004 09:48 AM

THIS COUNTRY IS INSANE,
YOU DON'T KNOW WHO/WHAT TO BELIEVE,
THIS IS WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE COUNTRY,
OK SO MAYBE THAT INFO I WAS GIVEN ABOUT THE PENTAGON IS BUNK...SORRY,
BUT YOU MISSED THE POINT,
THE POINT IS THERE NO POINT,
911 IS A BUNCH OF LIES,
AND IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT I SAY,
THE US IS BEING TAKEN OVER BY CRIMINALS AND THEFTS, MURDERERS,
EVEN IF I WERE TO SAY THAT MICKEY MOUSE BOMBED THE PENTAGON IT WOUND BE CLOSER
TO THE TRUTH THAN WHAT WE ARE GIVEN BY THE NEWS,
I WILL EXAMINE MY INFO BEFORE I POST STUFF,
THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT 911 OR THE PENTAGON BUT THERE IS...THAT'S
THE PROBLEM

[I didn't reply to this.  Once he started ranting about Mickey Mouse
my eyes glazed over and all his capital letters just ran together into
a grey smear.  I actually stared at my screen and wondered if
sanitariums have internet access...that would be the most likely
explanation for this foolishness.  But how about Cheney being a BEAST-MAN, a DEMON from hell?  HA HA HA!  Even a broken clock is right twice a day!  Anyway, he just recently reopened our dialogue with another bulletin board post.  What follows
is our most recent exchange.  -- Xopher]

----------------- Bulletin Message -----------------
From: GEORGE W. BUSH
Date: Sep 5, 2004 09:52 AM
SUBJECT: if you didn´t believe the pentagon missile thing check this

look at this:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pentagon.html

[Due to complaints about the many inaccuracies in the video, ebaumsworld has stopped hosting it. You can still view it at thememoryhole.com. --Xopher]

----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: Xopher
Date: Sep 6, 2004 12:02 AM

You knew I'd be writing, didn't you?

Look, I first heard these conspiracy theories over two years ago when
I was living in London.  The English were eating this stuff up at the
time (this animation was hosted on a .uk web URL) because a French
citizen named Thierry Meyssan had just written a book about it that
was getting a lot of attention in the European press.  In response, I
did a lot of research on the topic.  These Pentagon conspiracy books
and videos, slick though some of them may be, conveniently examine
only the documents and photographs that reinforce their perspective.
They don't weigh all the evidence.  They don't even weigh most of it. 
The end result can be quite convincing for the uneducated. 

There are many aspects of this video that can be picked apart.  One is
the fact that AA 77 didn't "immediately [clear] 395" and then crash
into the Pentagon: it actually flew parallel to the highway and cleared Washington Blvd, which can be seen even in the map portion of the video.  Another point is that whatever crashed into the Pentagon hit it between 09:35 and 09:45 on 9/11, not "8.38am". Sloppiness or bad research? The video quotes someone named Patterson who claims the plane looked small, like it held 8-12 people. For every "Patterson", there are hundreds, if not thousands of people who claim the plane was big and that it looked like a 757. Why don't we hear from them in this video? I also don't like the fact that "W" likes to highlight random parts of the crash site in red and pretend that he or she is showing us the actual entry point. Come to think of it, I don't like the fact that he calls himself "W".  A real journalist with something real to report would give us a real name.  If this were true, why hide behind a pseudonym? Likewise one of the authorities he/she quotes is "Cassiopeia". Who the hell is that and do we have any reason to trust their opinions? Because in the end, that's all these "facts" are, subjective opinions.

Recognize this photo?

It's the original, uncropped version of the one you sent out in your previous post on this topic. Look on the left side. Do you see that large pile of scrap metal behind the men in white jumpsuits? I'm not saying that they are parts of the plane found by the clean-up crew inside the building, but they COULD be. I just find it interesting that this area of the photo was omitted from the one that you sent (with the subject line "DO YOU SEE ANY PLANE WRECKAGE ANYWHERE? I DON'T").

The bottom line is this: I don't know exactly what happened that day at the Pentagon.  I can, however, examine the issue from all angles, read all the relevant data, and decide what I THINK happened.  And then I move on.  If someone, anyone, can actually show me something that will convince me it was a missile or a fighter jet or a Global Hawk or a fucking TIE Fighter that crashed into the Pentagon that day, I await them with open arms and an open mind.  In the meantime, I'll find the story with the most evidence to be the most credible. 

----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: GEORGE W. BUSH
Date: Sep 6, 2004 08:58 AM

i know what happened...

----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: Xopher
Date: Sep 6, 2004 12:05 PM

You do? Cool. Please show the rest of us some irrefutable evidence so
that we can know what happened, too.

----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: GEORGE W. BUSH
Date: Sep 6, 2004 11:13 PM

come on guy open your eyes, ears, and mind

----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: Xopher
Sep 7, 2004 11:01 PM

My eyes, ears, and mind are all wide open: you have shown me doctored photos and shoddily-researched web animations; you have had me listen to rumors, speculations, and outright lies; my mind is still waiting to be convinced. Believe me, I want to be. One of my father's friends was killed in the Pentagon disaster. And I despise the White House cabal so much that I would revel in anger and giddy feelings of political revenge if the Bush administration were found to be guilty of bombing the Pentagon, or of covering up a sinister plot, or even of failing to notify the public that a Global Hawk or fighter jet crashed into the Pentagon minutes before or after AA 77. I initially researched this topic BECAUSE I wanted to believe it. I was, however, disappointed. I do not believe in unscientific, unproven theories. I believe that it's POSSIBLE that there was a cover-up involved with 9/11, just as I believe that it's POSSIBLE that there is intelligent life outside our solar system. But I have not seen any credible evidence that would prove it. I will not take anything on faith. And no matter how much I want to believe something, if it disagrees with empirical evidence, it is wrong. That's all there is to it. So again, I challenge you: if you can find some real proof, something that appeals to logic and reason, not faith and eager speculation, then, please, edify me.

Xopher

----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: GEORGE W. BUSH
Date: Sep 8, 2004 10:30 AM

this sounds like a personal problem,
the evidence is there,
your just choosing not to ear it,

----------------- Original Message -----------------
Sep 8, 2004 10:01 PM
From: Xopher

If logic, reason, and sanity are personal problems, then I am guilty as charged. This dialogue has devolved from a mature discussion into jejune repetition. Or perhaps I foolishly believed it was the former when it never actually was. I won't make that mistake with you again; nor will I waste any more time seriously considering your groundless beliefs, incoherent arguments, and sophistic accusations. From now on your messages and posts will be nothing but a source of light comedy to me...sort of like "ALF" or "Small Wonder": funny, but not "HA HA" funny. More of a groaning funny. I expect you know what I mean. No hard feelings, I hope?

Please keep the laughs coming,

Xopher

----------------- Original Message -----------------
Sep 9, 2004 01:58 PM
From: GEORGE W. BUSH

YOU IGNORANT FOOL...FUCK YOU...TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE SHARE MY BELIEFS...YOU ARE ONE WHO EATS PROPAGANDA CEREAL FOR BREAKFAST...I HOPE YOUR HAPPY WITH THE LIFE YOU HAVE CHOSEN...IGNORANT AMERICAN FOOL...BYE...BITCH!!!

----------------- Original Message -----------------
Sep 9, 2004 09:37 PM
From: Xopher

Ha ha ha! That was pretty good, but I think you can do better. I really enjoyed the ranting mad scientist angle you're going for. The broken caps lock button adds to the kooky persona, but I fear the bad grammar is a bit trite, don't you? I mean, mad scientists are loony but they're usually depicted as blue blooded smartypants. It's just a thought.

"Propaganda cereal for breakfast," however: that's definitely a keeper! The "fuck you" is a nice touch, but I think the final "bitch" after the ellipsis seems a bit extraneous.

And adding that bitter comment to one of my photos! Sneaky! Heh heh! You get extra points for that one!

I am confused about one thing, though. Why did you delete me from your list of friends? It would be easier for us to continue our correspondence if I was still on your list; plus I wouldn't have to miss out on any of your entertaining bulletin board posts! If you could just add me again, that would be great.

Propaganda cereal -- HAH! That's classic! I better not think about that one while I'm drinking milk!

Xopher